The subjectivity of morality and the moral majority? How do we come to terms with 6 billion empirical perspectives?
You know, it bugs me when people of like mind sit around and talk about like things in a mutually gratuitous rallying session. For that reason I will see how long I can go without revealing too much of my leftness or rightness (since those unfortunate polarizing labels are so hard to avoid). I would love to somehow have the opportunity to get a discussion going with people from as far left, right and middle (how far is middle?) on any practical, political or spiritual subject to bridge the gap that is instantly created with these labels. There's a quote I heard once that I like: "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged." conversely, how about "a liberal is a conservative that got laid off one month before their retirement would have kicked in"? We are all people concerned with keeping the bills paid, a roof over our heads, food on the table and that our children get every opportunity they can to have a good life. Black, white, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or pagan we can mostly agree on those fundamentals, can't we? What else can we agree on? I'd love to hear comments on that subject: what are the universal truths or values amongst us?
31 Comments:
Tolerance.
Respect -- especially respect for personal freedoms.
Forgiveness -- toward others and ourselves.
Love -- agape.
High fences.
Having a life of extreme privelidge, all I know is my own perspective, which is to aknowledge and be grateful for all that I have, to use the gifts in my life to thrive, and then to love and give all I can.
What I don't understand is how the powers of the world can make so many decisions based on something other that what will benefit the people.
I love you guys and it has been so fun to have a little window into your lives! Love to the kids!
Bodhi
Wow! Nice to hear from you Bodhi! Thanks for your comments Quilldancer. so what we have so far is
1. Be good to one another
2. Don't kill each other
3. Tolerance
4. Respect-- especially for personal freedoms
5. Forgiveness of others and ourselves
6. High fences
7. Acknowledge and be grateful for all that you have.
8. Use the gifts in life to thrive and give back (paraphrasing so correct me if I get it wrong, Bodhi)
For discussion, I'd like more clarity on number 6, "High Fences." Are you talking about defenses against physical harm? enemies? or privacy? unclear. Care to clarify? Cheers. TM
High fences -- metaphorical for some, but for me, I'll settle for the physical one. My neighbor man wears low slung jeans and one-size-too-small t-shirts. Other than the full moon at high noon he's been a pretty good neighbor, I just think he'd be a better one if we had a fence.
Wow, Tom, you are certainly never one to shy away from any subject, are you? And as for what we all want, it is related to the respect thing already mentioned, but don't we all want validation? To know that we're worthy as a person?
You know, Brooke, I didn't even think of validation -- probably has something to do with my ego.
aah,great imagery: full moon at high noon. I can just see this guy (as much as I don't want to). Make the pictures stop! Okay, so maybe we need fences. Let's call it privacy, then. Fair enough? TM
Hi Brooke, welcome to the discussion. So we'll add validation-- to know that you are a worthy person to the list. this assumes, however, that you need to get that from outside yourself; That someone else or a community or society determines whether you are worthy or not. Am I mistaken? comments? TM
You are correct, Tom, in that if you need outside validation that you're worthy as a person you are allowing a community or society to determine your worthiness. And I'm not saying that's healthy, but don't far too many people do that? And isn't "belonging" on Mazlow's heirachy of needs?
SUMMARY:
1. Be good to one another
2. Don't kill each other
3. Tolerance
4. Respect-- especially for personal freedoms
5. Forgiveness of others and ourselves
6. Privacy
7. Acknowledge and be grateful for all that you have.
8. Use the gifts in life to thrive and give back
9. To recieve validation--to know that you're a worthy person
Hi Brooke,
Let's see, Abaraham Mazlow, right, the self-actualization guy, right? I like the word "belonging" better than validation in that it implies community, or sense of home. Maybe that would be a universal truth angle we could explore that doesn't sound to co-dependant. As sense of belonging. hmm. I like that. TM
Right, Tom. Right guy. And belonging does have healthier connotations than validation. So we'll go with belonging. By the way, I miss you guys!
Brooke,
We miss you too. When are you going to be back in our neck of the woods?
Is belonging always a good thing?
QD,
I dunno. Put belonging into a negative context for me and we'll find out. A universal truth is somthing that is always true to everyone, I suppose. So, a single negative connotation could shoot something down.
NEW SUMMARY:
1. Be good to one another
2. Don't kill each other
3. Tolerance
4. Respect-- especially for personal freedoms
5. Forgiveness of others and ourselves
6. Privacy
7. Acknowledge and be grateful for all that you have.
8. Use the gifts in life to thrive and give back
9. To have a sense of belonging
CJ,
You breached the hot topic: God
Is God a universal truth? Is not killing each other a Universal truth or even a religious truth? For example, is it a Christian truth not to kill each other?
If so, can a Christian support the war in Iraq or even fight in it? And if so how and under what pretext?
Maybe "Don't kill each other" is not a universal truth or value, just as mabye God is not a universal truth or value.
I belong to that group of people who wear the label "abused children" I belong to that group of people called, "fat." I know this isn't what Brooke meant by "belonging." I think perhaps the word, "acceptance" might be more valid. Universally we long to be accepted for who we are. Universally we fear it will never happen.
Aaah. I see. so belonging can mean labeling as in "belonging to." The kind of belonging Brooke and I are talking about is the sense of belonging as in having a place in the world, a safe place, a home a community a sense of family. I say "sense of family" because the family we get is sometimes different than the one we find along the way and create for ourselves. Just as in your example, family may not be positive, but the "idea" of family, of familiars to whom we"belong" and feel comfortable with, is something we can create with those we come to trust whether blood related or not. So, what's a word that means that: Fellowship?
Wait a minute. I missed "acceptance" on the list. QD mentioned it and I didn't highlight that right off. Acceptance is huge. It may not be the same thing as the interpretation of belonging that Brooke and I were talking about but it is a better alternative for "validation."
Tom and auntie, you both have good points. Yes, what I meant was a sense of belonging, as Tom stated. But auntie is right that we do all long to be accepted as we are, don't we? Well, except for maybe sociopaths who care absolutely nothing about what anyone else thinks.
NEWEST SUMMARY:
1. Be good to one another
2. Don't kill each other
3. Tolerance towards others
4. Respect-- especially for personal freedoms
5. Forgiveness of others and ourselves
6. Privacy
7. Acknowledge and be grateful for all that you have.
8. Use the gifts in life to thrive and give back
9. Acceptance
10.Fellowship
Oops! Somehow love ---agape got dropped. I don't think we want to lose that one.
Newest list:
1. Be good to one another
2. Don't kill each other
3. Tolerance towards others
4. Respect-- especially for personal freedoms
5. Forgiveness of others and ourselves
6. Privacy
7. Acknowledge and be grateful for all that you have.
8. Use the gifts in life to thrive and give back
9. Acceptance
10.Fellowship
11.Love--agape
Well my first night blogging has been a lot of fun. Thanks for those of you who participated in this maiden voyage. This old man is signing off to get some sleep. The baby wakes up early.
Peace and good night.
Tom, direct yourself to the google, "search all blogs" button on the top of your post and you will find many people to converse with. I am going to get my friend, Rob, and send him this way. I think he'll enjoy talking to you.
Id God universal? He thinks he is -- people don't so much agree.
I like to say things on occasion that are the exact opposite of what I believe just to get people to speak up.
People who believe so emphatically that they are right make me very nervous.
Welcome to blogworld.
A very fitting discussion for your first blog. I'm glad your posting such thoughts and musings.
I've got your blog on my rss feeder, so I'll be watching.
Goldennib, you're talking about dogma are you not? It seems that that is where you hit a brick wall in communicating...If someone is sure that they are right then anyone who believes differently is wrong. So how does someone arrive at new conclusions or hear anybody from that mindset?
However, you started your comment by saying that you like to say things that are the opposite of what you believe to get them to speak up. Interesting tactic. care to share an example?
Hello Robert,
Please to make your acquaintance. Cindra has told me many good things about you. I believe that you're the Alaskan squirrel cam guy, if I'm not mistaken. Cheers, TM
Yes, The Great Alaskan Red Squirrel Cam is mine, or should I say it's my little red squirrels cam. They are the stars not me, I'm just the fellow who provides the goodies for them to snack on. In turn every once in a while they will pose for me to take a picture. They own this place, I'm just renting from them.
bob
Tom: One of my favorites -
Men (as in people of the male persausion, not the collective human population) are evil, no good and self-centered.
This comment seems to upset certain women and men beyond belief. I've been called some interesting names for making this comment; D
I also say things that I believe that upset people, such as, God has a great sense of humor. After all, He created man (as in the collective human population.)
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