Thursday, November 16, 2006

Update on War Crimes Complaint

Hiya folks, thanks for the amazing responses to my previous post on War Crimes. The discussion is still going strong. As an update, the Complaint has been filed. Interestingly enough, my local newspaper, which is fairly liberal being in Greenie Eugenie, made no mention of it. I went to NY Times online and didn't see it in the world section but did keep digging (I think I found it in European news) and came up with something pretty deeply buried.

Below is testimony I found on the CCR (Center for Consitutional Rights) site ( by Brigadier General Janis Karpinksi that is rather compelling. She has flown to Germany to testify. Check out what she has to say:


At 10:40 AM , Anonymous cindra said...

Amazing, though not surprising...isn't the torture of "prisoners" who are detained for innocuous reasons considered terrorism? Seven bad apples don't just ruin the barrel...they shred any credibility to tiny pieces.

At 11:42 AM , Blogger bazza27 said...

I haven't seen anything on this in the British press either Tom (haven't looked that hard though) keep us informed.

At 4:27 PM , Blogger Logophile said...

I am so horrified that our military and our leadership ever considered thinking about this, and yet, here we are.

At 4:55 PM , Blogger QuillDancer said...

But it can't be terrorism if we do it, because we're the good guys ....

At 7:40 PM , Blogger Just Tom said...

C-- yeah, and I think her point about 7 bad apples was that that's what they wanted everybody to think-- that there were just a few bad apples and that those could be dealt with. Instead, it was a system wide problem and new memos have surfaced (there was an article today about a memo signed by Bush that the CIA just acknowledged) that make it clear (at least to the plaintiffs) that torutre was policy.

Bazza-- update: the article in our local paper on the latest memos that I mentioned in my comment above to C had a link to another article that turned out to be about the charges filed in Germany. So, I did find it in our local paper, but it was very difficult to find-- I mean, I was purposely looking for the article, searched the paper more than once and then went on record here in my blog that it wasn't covered. I did eventually find it, but that's how hard it was to find.

Logo-- there is that notion that all is fair in love and war. More and more is coming to light about secret Abu Ghraibs throughout Europe. Karpinksi mentions it and more will come to light on that through time. There is so much more that we don't know.

Quilly-- That really is the sentiment of a lot of Americans. When I posted my path to peace over at Sar's, the biggest issue people had with the Bill of Rights was that we wouldn't be able to torture people. The thought was, "well, if torture's what we need to do to keep America safe then I'm all for it." My thought: if we did not become the enemy and stood for something better, we would have less enemies. Instead we perpetuate an ever-escalating chain of heinous acts.

General note to all of my blogger buddies: I'm on a very intense deadline this week, working day and night and so I have opted to just drop in on my blog and engage people here. So, I'm not getting out much these days to other blogs and am very sorry about that. Quilly, I will go and finish reading your guest post at Sar's and see how that's going because I want to support you in that. Plus, being the politically charged guy that I am, I'm very interested in how NCLB is effecting our schools. See you over there and thanks for dropping by and making comments everybody! Wish me luck!

At 7:50 PM , Blogger QuillDancer said...

Tom, I hope you know I said that with pure sarcasm and don't for a minue condone the use of torture by our government of anyone elses!

At 4:21 AM , Blogger Jenn said...

Hey Tom, I just saw on Cindra's blog that it was your birthday...Happy Belated!!!!

At 2:54 PM , Blogger Egan said...

Yep, I've always wondered what makes us different than other countries with nuclear bombs. Why is it okay to invade their countries without a shred of evidence? Torture isn't a way to treat anyone humanely. There are alternatives.

Now, I should probably watch the video in question.

At 3:41 PM , Blogger QUASAR9 said...

Hi Tom, I catch your drift in the earlier post, all the atrocities commited by Saddam, now commited by the regime which replaces him to "restore order? democracy?"

I wish they'd speak English
I wish they'd speak Clear ...

1) The military need wars, like firmen need fires
2) The military like their toys. The war, the glory, the medals, the honours, the promotions, the pay, the pensions for survivors

3) It is a good strategy to take the war to the enemy, but there was NEVER a military threat from Iraq to the US mainland or to the British Isles

4) The killing field exists in Iraq because the US military are there. The only way an Iraqi government can restore order is by being as ruthless as the previous regime ... so regime change wasn't the cure. Rumsfeld Out Strike One

5) Iraq never had WMDs. If gassing several thousand kurds is a war crime, what is dropping Napalm on Vietnam ... what is killing and burning one hundred thousand retreating Iraqi troops on the road to Basra after Gulf War I, with nuclear tipped warheads ... what is the hundreds of thousands of Iraqies killed by USAF strikes in the first six days of Gulf War II - Rumsfeld Out Strike Two

6) If a President knowingly leads a country into war on false pretences based on outright lies - that is impeachable. Rumsfeld Out Strike Three

Impeach Blair, Impeach Bush
Let no future President or PM even contyemplate lying to their people or citizens, and lead their country into false wars, in the search of fame or glory, nor to write their name into the history books. History is full of falsehood & lies, the honour & glory glossing over the real sacrifices, and the horrors of war.

This is not hollywood, this is not tv. This is CNN and Reality TV

At 8:37 PM , Blogger Just Tom said...

Quilly-- I knew exactly what you were saying. And I was agreeing with you. Americans often have that double standard.

Jenn-- thanks for the B-day wishes. Sorry I haven't been by lately, but as I explained in my long comment I'm working on a big deadline that I hope to have wrapped up this weekend and can get back to cruising around. Say hi to Malaysia for me.

Egan-- yeah, I always think it's funny when we make a big stink about some country trying to acquire nuclear weapons. It's like we're in this club of nuclear countries and we decide who gets to have them because we know best. Did you know that Bush actually entertained the idea of using limited nuclear force at the outset of the war on afghanistan (I believe).

Q-- I wonder if there will be an impeachment before this is done. More stuff gets revealed everyday.

At 1:12 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

As she says, we should not stoop to their level.

At 12:27 PM , Blogger QUASAR9 said...

Henry Kissinger declares "military victory is not possible in Iraq." Only Civil government of all the warring factions can bring peace and put an end to the conflict in Iraq.

The US still believes that military destruction of countries is not only good for the arms industry, but good for the economy with the reconstruction contracts which follow.

The icing on the cake, on top of free flowing Oil. Don't forget Iraq Oil money doesn't go to Iraq, it goes to Texaco Oil whose headquarters are in ...?

Maybe those who want to make a point should boycott Texaco Oil.

Vote with your voice, Vote at the Ballot Box
but most powerful, Vote with your feet
Walk away from the agents of war
Walk away from those who profit from war

At 4:28 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Happy Thanksgiving. Come see my attack hand turkey, Charlie.

At 6:15 AM , Blogger Doug said...

Speaking of war crimes, happy Thanksgiving!

At 4:01 PM , Blogger Egan said...

Tom, it wouldn't surprise me at all. I do think the "impeachment" idea against Bush isn't a good idea, but I don't have the energy to go into why I feel that way. Enjoy your lazy weekend Tom.

At 5:58 PM , Blogger Just Tom said...

Thanks for all your well-wishing, folks.

Goldennib, the "not stooping to their leve" has become kind of a mantra for me. I could never see how tht did any good for the idea that we are in any way better.

Q-- strong words. Actually I think boycotting, if done on a large scale, is almost more powerful than voting. Nothing hurts more than money, to the people we are trying to reach.

Doug-- yeah, the notion of Thanksgiving is one of those twisted things that you have to decide how to take. In my latest post I decide to embrace the idea that giving thanks is a good thing and don't get historical about it.

Egan-- always curious to hear ideas you may have on this. If you are suggesting that if the Dems go on too much of a witch hunt with their new found power that it could work agianst them, I would agree. The new majority needs to show some dignity and poise and attempt to work with those across the aisle or they could lose their advantage as fast as they gained it.


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